Discussion:
The dark nature of humanity and the issue of race
(too old to reply)
M Winther
2015-06-20 10:37:36 UTC
Permalink
The recent Charlestown church massacre of black people, perpetrated by a
white male, brings up the race question again. What is the nature of
this obnoxious evil? First, let's look at the data. This is FBI:s
homicide statistics for 2013 (http://tinyurl.com/p639hq8 ).

Number of homicides with white victim and black offender: 409.
Number of homicides with black victim and white offender: 189.

The black percentage of the population is approximately 13%.
The white percentage of the population is approximately 78%.

Thus, Blacks are accountable for 68.4% of black-white interracial
homicides despite being only 13% of the population. With this data we
don't need the exact population number in the U.S. to calculate the
likelihood to commit interracial homicide, because we can simplify and
say that there are 13 black persons and 78 white persons living in the
"mini-USA" where the homicide relation remains the same. Thus, 13 black
people commit 409 interracial homicides and 78 white people commit 189
interracial homicides. So in the mini-USA Blacks commit 31.5 interracial
homicides per person whereas Whites commit 2.4 interracial homicides per
person. Thus we get the relation, which is valid for USA today: a black
person is 13 times(!) more likely to commit interracial homicide than a
white person.

The over-representation of Blacks in interracial homicide is truly
daunting. Today's intellectuals have a solution to this, however.
Typically, we must neutralize hatred by elevating forgiveness as ideal
and stop seeing people as "other". An obvious conclusion is that black
people, especially, should stop thinking in terms of out-group and
in-group. As long as Blacks remain defensive about their group
affiliation they will continue killing white people.

It is the formulation of an intellectual seated in an ivory tower,
safely removed from reality. The truth in the matter is that homicide is
*largely* an effect of innate aggression which the criminal personality
is unable to control. It has its roots in the archaic psyche of man.
Central to archaic man is the theme of emancipation of the ego from the
serfdom under the unconscious. In Fiona Lloyd-Davies documentary,
Congolese soldiers say: "When we rape, we feel free". Killing and raping
remain the most prominent rituals whereby temporary ego emancipation is
achieved. That's why, in historical pagan societies, the murderous
ritual was institutionalized as the blood sacrifice. But it remains
equally thematic today, in the way Boko Haram and IS are attacking
civilian villagers in a rampage of rape and murder.

When analysing the interracial murder statistics in the U.S., we must
primarily understand it as expressions of archaic man, and not as
airy-fairy sociological effects of group segregation. In fact, if Blacks
and Whites had lived more isolated from each other, then the interracial
crime statistics would abate drastically. The notion that a person prone
to murder shall become a decent and loving person just by adopting the
notion of racial inclusivity is ludicrous. In fact, disidentification
from white man is wholesome for black people, and vice versa, because
individuation requires that one remains true to one's own nature.
Otherwise disidentification risks taking a concrete expression in the
form of hatred and murder. This is evident from the fact that different
ethnicities and cultures are wholly capable of respecting each other as
long as they live remote from one another. But when they mix, social
trust is drastically reduced. This has been verified by recent research
at the universities of Copenhagen and Aarhus, according to which
"interethnic exposure underlies the negative relationship between ethnic
diversity in residential contexts and social trust."
(http://asr.sagepub.com/content/80/3/550 ).

In Sweden the phenomenon of "white flight" is very pronounced. When
non-European immigrants exceed 4% in a housing area, the Swedes start to
move out, according to a dissertation (2015) by Emma Neuman at the Linné
university, Sweden (http://tinyurl.com/ojqhnpo ). Had people been
allowed to acknowledge differences, however, the problem would be less
pronounced. Due to the effects of political correct propaganda racial
awareness is today unconscious. Thus, it becomes infected with archaic
fear and mistrust.

Race is all about social status. It doesn't matter that most white
people today reject the notion of race, because they act differently.
Evidently, when many black people move into a white housing area, it
gives rise to the phenomenon of "white flight". Blacks have, on average,
lower social status than Whites. What contributes to their lower status
is that they are less successful in society. In USA, 1 in 3 black males
will go to prison in their lifetime (http://tinyurl.com/nscux8j ). In
Sweden, the majority of the black community is unemployed. Such social
differences give rise to "racial awareness", whether or not
intellectuals produce articles about the irrelevance of pigmentation.
This is compounded by historical facts, i.e., that white civilization
thoroughly eclipses black African civilisation.

So race exists *socially*, regardless of the many intellectual evasions.
Arguably, this intellectual tendency of sweeping racial differences
under the carpet is counter-productive. If we lack a conscious concept
of differences, it will instead manifest unconsciously. The average
person will unthinkingly follow his instincts and avoid people who are
unconsciously perceived as different. It will only aggravate
segregation. On the other hand, if there is a conscious awareness of
racial differences, then personality remains in control of his
reactions:

"I am aware of the statistical facts about racial differences, which do
not speak in favour of Blacks, but I am going to take this man into my
employ anyway, because I am an upstanding citizen who looks to the
individual rather than racial belonging."

Otherwise, if the employer in this example had lacked a conscious
awareness of racial difference, following the political correct notion,
then he would unconsciously place the application at the bottom of the
pile. He would fall prey to the *unconscious* awareness of racial
differences, which manifests surreptitiously as negative feeling.

In my view, it would have been better if we reverted to the olden ways
of racial disidentification and segregation. Although this seems
oppressive and lacking in sympathy, there is no other alternative than
to accept that human beings partake of "dark nature", and that there is
no way out of this predicament. We have to accept that "social status"
is what counts (regardless of what people say) and that life on this
earth includes aggression and murder. The idea that we can remove dark
nature by adopting a forgiving sentiment in an ethnically mixed
environment is ludicrous. It's like saying that we should be able to
stop the greenhouse effect by composting kitchen refuse. Let's get real
and admit that evil is here to stay.

M. Winther



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Abhidevananda
2015-06-20 15:46:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by M Winther
The recent Charlestown church massacre of black people, perpetrated by a
white male, brings up the race question again. What is the nature of
this obnoxious evil? First, let's look at the data. This is FBI:s
homicide statistics for 2013 (http://tinyurl.com/p639hq8 ).
Number of homicides with white victim and black offender: 409.
Number of homicides with black victim and white offender: 189.
What a thoroughly inappropriate posting on the pretext of this sad
event! A white man tried to stir up a race war against blacks, and
Matts has supported him in his racist objective.
Abhidevananda
2015-06-21 02:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by M Winther
The recent Charlestown church massacre of black people, perpetrated by a
white male, brings up the race question again. What is the nature of
this obnoxious evil? First, let's look at the data. This is FBI:s
homicide statistics for 2013 (http://tinyurl.com/p639hq8 ).
Number of homicides with white victim and black offender: 409.
Number of homicides with black victim and white offender: 189.
The black percentage of the population is approximately 13%.
The white percentage of the population is approximately 78%.
See
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/20/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html

Sounds just like Mats, does it not?
M Winther
2015-06-26 03:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Whereas Whites subject Blacks to discrimination, Blacks subject Whites
to criminal victimization at an astounding disproportion. Such facts
must be placed on the table. Otherwise the evil circle cannot be broken.
It is not my placing the facts on the table that drives racism. Race as
social construct has been thoroughly refuted by cognitive science. To
expose the racial problem has the reverse effect, because it activates
the racial complex, allowing for an integration with consciousness.

Cognitive scientist Lawrence A. Hirschfeld ("Race in the Making -
Cognition, Culture, and the Child's Construction of Human Kinds") says
that "race" is fundamentally part of the human cognitive endowment as a
domain-specific competence for creating knowledge of and reasoning about
human kinds. He regards these findings as in many respects disquieting,
because race is not simply a bad idea--it is a deeply rooted bad idea,
firmly grounded in our minds. Thus, our naive and unconscious beliefs
about hidden racial qualities are bound to perpetuate discrimination.
The race problem belongs to our "dark nature". It will never go a way,
and we must stop pretending that it is merely a wrongful conception that
can be rectified, and that it is neither present in myself nor my
children, but only in others. It is a painful ever-present reality,
which is not really a problem that I can pursue outside myself and
rectify, since it is part and parcel of human nature.

What we *can* do is becoming *conscious* of the problem, and stop
sweeping it under the carpet all the time.

M. Winther
Post by M Winther
The recent Charlestown church massacre of black people, perpetrated by
a white male, brings up the race question again. What is the nature of
this obnoxious evil? First, let's look at the data. This is FBI:s
homicide statistics for 2013 (http://tinyurl.com/p639hq8 ).
Number of homicides with white victim and black offender: 409.
Number of homicides with black victim and white offender: 189.
The black percentage of the population is approximately 13%.
The white percentage of the population is approximately 78%.
Thus, Blacks are accountable for 68.4% of black-white interracial
homicides despite being only 13% of the population. With this data we
don't need the exact population number in the U.S. to calculate the
likelihood to commit interracial homicide, because we can simplify and
say that there are 13 black persons and 78 white persons living in the
"mini-USA" where the homicide relation remains the same. Thus, 13
black people commit 409 interracial homicides and 78 white people
commit 189 interracial homicides. So in the mini-USA Blacks commit
31.5 interracial homicides per person whereas Whites commit 2.4
interracial homicides per person. Thus we get the relation, which is
valid for USA today: a black person is 13 times(!) more likely to
commit interracial homicide than a white person.
The over-representation of Blacks in interracial homicide is truly
daunting. Today's intellectuals have a solution to this, however.
Typically, we must neutralize hatred by elevating forgiveness as ideal
and stop seeing people as "other". An obvious conclusion is that black
people, especially, should stop thinking in terms of out-group and
in-group. As long as Blacks remain defensive about their group
affiliation they will continue killing white people.
It is the formulation of an intellectual seated in an ivory tower,
safely removed from reality. The truth in the matter is that homicide
is *largely* an effect of innate aggression which the criminal
personality is unable to control. It has its roots in the archaic
psyche of man. Central to archaic man is the theme of emancipation of
the ego from the serfdom under the unconscious. In Fiona Lloyd-Davies
documentary, Congolese soldiers say: "When we rape, we feel free".
Killing and raping remain the most prominent rituals whereby temporary
ego emancipation is achieved. That's why, in historical pagan
societies, the murderous ritual was institutionalized as the blood
sacrifice. But it remains equally thematic today, in the way Boko
Haram and IS are attacking civilian villagers in a rampage of rape and
murder.
When analysing the interracial murder statistics in the U.S., we must
primarily understand it as expressions of archaic man, and not as
airy-fairy sociological effects of group segregation. In fact, if
Blacks and Whites had lived more isolated from each other, then the
interracial crime statistics would abate drastically. The notion that
a person prone to murder shall become a decent and loving person just
by adopting the notion of racial inclusivity is ludicrous. In fact,
disidentification from white man is wholesome for black people, and
vice versa, because individuation requires that one remains true to
one's own nature. Otherwise disidentification risks taking a concrete
expression in the form of hatred and murder. This is evident from the
fact that different ethnicities and cultures are wholly capable of
respecting each other as long as they live remote from one another.
But when they mix, social trust is drastically reduced. This has been
verified by recent research at the universities of Copenhagen and
Aarhus, according to which "interethnic exposure underlies the
negative relationship between ethnic diversity in residential contexts
and social trust." (http://asr.sagepub.com/content/80/3/550 ).
In Sweden the phenomenon of "white flight" is very pronounced. When
non-European immigrants exceed 4% in a housing area, the Swedes start
to move out, according to a dissertation (2015) by Emma Neuman at the
Linné university, Sweden (http://tinyurl.com/ojqhnpo ). Had people
been allowed to acknowledge differences, however, the problem would be
less pronounced. Due to the effects of political correct propaganda
racial awareness is today unconscious. Thus, it becomes infected with
archaic fear and mistrust.
Race is all about social status. It doesn't matter that most white
people today reject the notion of race, because they act differently.
Evidently, when many black people move into a white housing area, it
gives rise to the phenomenon of "white flight". Blacks have, on
average, lower social status than Whites. What contributes to their
lower status is that they are less successful in society. In USA, 1 in
3 black males will go to prison in their lifetime
(http://tinyurl.com/nscux8j ). In Sweden, the majority of the black
community is unemployed. Such social differences give rise to "racial
awareness", whether or not intellectuals produce articles about the
irrelevance of pigmentation. This is compounded by historical facts,
i.e., that white civilization thoroughly eclipses black African
civilisation.
So race exists *socially*, regardless of the many intellectual
evasions. Arguably, this intellectual tendency of sweeping racial
differences under the carpet is counter-productive. If we lack a
conscious concept of differences, it will instead manifest
unconsciously. The average person will unthinkingly follow his
instincts and avoid people who are unconsciously perceived as
different. It will only aggravate segregation. On the other hand, if
there is a conscious awareness of racial differences, then personality
"I am aware of the statistical facts about racial differences, which
do not speak in favour of Blacks, but I am going to take this man into
my employ anyway, because I am an upstanding citizen who looks to the
individual rather than racial belonging."
Otherwise, if the employer in this example had lacked a conscious
awareness of racial difference, following the political correct
notion, then he would unconsciously place the application at the
bottom of the pile. He would fall prey to the *unconscious* awareness
of racial differences, which manifests surreptitiously as negative
feeling.
In my view, it would have been better if we reverted to the olden ways
of racial disidentification and segregation. Although this seems
oppressive and lacking in sympathy, there is no other alternative than
to accept that human beings partake of "dark nature", and that there
is no way out of this predicament. We have to accept that "social
status" is what counts (regardless of what people say) and that life
on this earth includes aggression and murder. The idea that we can
remove dark nature by adopting a forgiving sentiment in an ethnically
mixed environment is ludicrous. It's like saying that we should be
able to stop the greenhouse effect by composting kitchen refuse. Let's
get real and admit that evil is here to stay.
M. Winther
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Abhidevananda
2015-06-26 07:45:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by M Winther
Whereas Whites subject Blacks to discrimination, Blacks subject Whites
to criminal victimization at an astounding disproportion. Such facts
must be placed on the table. Otherwise the evil circle cannot be broken.
It is not my placing the facts on the table that drives racism. Race as
social construct has been thoroughly refuted by cognitive science. To
expose the racial problem has the reverse effect, because it activates
the racial complex, allowing for an integration with consciousness.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

Mats, your blinkered, pseudo-intellectual racism is probably some of
the most insensitive and repugnant material posted on the usenet.
Certainly, it is the most hypocritical rubbish I've seen on the
uk.philosophy.humanism usegroup.

You pass off white mistreatment of blacks as "discrimination", but you
describe black mistreatment of whites as "criminal victimization". How
convenient! Perhaps, sitting in your lily-white ivory tower, you might
find some corner of the universe at some instant in time where such a
self-righteous assessment might be accurate. But that certainly does
not describe the situation in the United States, taken in historical
context. Have you never heard of the Ku Klux Klan?

______________________________________________________________________
There are "2805 [documented] victims of lynch mobs killed between 1882
and 1930 in ten southern states. Although mobs murdered almost 300
white men and women, the vast majority - almost 2,500 - of lynch
victims were African-American. Of these black victims, 94 percent died
in the hands of white lynch mobs. The scale of this carnage means
that, on the average, a black man, woman, or child was murdered nearly
once a week, every week, between 1882 and 1930 by a hate-driven white mob"

http://www.umass.edu/complit/aclanet/USLynch.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

and

______________________________________________________________________
Lynchings in which mobs raided jailhouses to hang, torture and burn
alive black men, sometimes leading to public executions in courthouse
squares, occurred more often in the U.S. South than was previously
known, according to a report released on Tuesday.

The slightest transgression could spur violence, the Equal Justice
Initiative found, as it documented 3,959 victims of lynching in a
dozen Southern states.

The group said it found 700 more lynchings of black people in the
region than had been previously reported. The research took five years
and covered 1877 to 1950, the period from the end of post-Civil War
Reconstruction to the years immediately following World War Two.

The report cited a 1940 incident in which Jesse Thornton was lynched
in Alabama for not saying “Mister” as he talked to a white police officer.

In 1916, men lynched Jeff Brown for accidentally bumping into a white
girl as he ran to catch a train, the report said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/10/us-usa-race-lynching-idUSKBN0LE2VP20150210
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you are going to talk about a "circle of evil", then have the
decency to start your circle at an intelligent point in time. Prior to
the aforementioned lynchings, slavery was legal in the USA (and not
long before that in England). And, at least in the early 1800's,
Sweden also permitted the practice slavery in its colony of Saint
Barthélemy.

Who knows how many thousands of Africans were captured along the Slave
Coast and perished in transit, locked in chains on ships sailing to
England and the United States... and Saint Barthélemy? And if those
Africans were fortunate to survive the journey, the life in store for
them was not at all to be envied.

No doubt, today whites are experiencing a backlash. As it is said:
What goes around, comes around. But with any circle of hate, the
solution is never more hate. The solution is love. The solution is
genuine humanism.

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